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There is a general rule of thumb that says "Don't read the comments." It's up there with "Someone is wrong on the internet!" and "Oh, internet drama" for generally pushing the idea that discussion that takes place online, as opposed to in person (or, I guess, newspaper opinion columns and talk shows? I don't entirely know what it's being compared to) is meaningless furor.
And I'll grant that in some places it's true. I generally won't read the comments for a YouTube video. (But sometimes there are fun ones voted to the top, on fun videos.) I won't read the comments on a Cracked article. (Though skimming to see what's been heavily upvoted is interesting.) I've left various forums and stopped reading the comments on all sorts of blogs because the arguments were entirely circular or one-sided, and there didn't seem to be much point.
But I spend a lot of time on a forum these days where I've seen people say, "Oh, I get what you're saying, now. I think you're right and I was wrong." Or, "I'm sorry. I misunderstood what you meant; I take back what I said about it." Or, "Hey, I never knew that! Now I need to reconsider what I was saying earlier." It still has its cranks and a few people who can derail any conversation and people with their annoying political hobby-horses, and there were some distinct histrionics over the Microsoft vs. Sony console wars, but...by and large, it's a friendly place. And people will step up sometimes and say, "Hey, you shouldn't say that. That's over the line." And other people will often listen when they do.
I read the comments on blogs like Making Light, where there's good moderation and a sense of community, and when someone new flails in and starts making a mess, the locals are willing to say, "Look. Your behavior is out of line and unacceptable here. But here's how you can correct it; you can stay and argue your point if you're willing to do it by community standards." And I've seen people apologize to each other there, too.
That's probably my best signal for a healthy community, online or anywhere else. People being willing to apologize. People being willing to change their minds, given evidence that says they should. People willing to say, "I misunderstood. I misjudged you. I misspoke."
I'd like to be one of those people. God knows I can get frothy at times myself. Or try to make some clever jab, and realize after the fact that I have just invoked the failure state of clever. (Which is, as Scalzi says, asshole.) And I want to be the sort of person who is willing to apologize, and step back, and rephrase, and clarify, or just plain say, "Hey, I was wrong. That was over the line. I'm sorry. I won't do it again."
If I take a stand and won't back down on everything, then it's meaningless. The more I'm willing to back down when I was wrong, the more it means something when I actually hold my ground.
Anyway. Arguing on the internet! Sometimes it's a good thing! (But seriously, don't read the comments on most news articles posted online. Or on most any blog that doesn't practice some form of moderation.)
And I'll grant that in some places it's true. I generally won't read the comments for a YouTube video. (But sometimes there are fun ones voted to the top, on fun videos.) I won't read the comments on a Cracked article. (Though skimming to see what's been heavily upvoted is interesting.) I've left various forums and stopped reading the comments on all sorts of blogs because the arguments were entirely circular or one-sided, and there didn't seem to be much point.
But I spend a lot of time on a forum these days where I've seen people say, "Oh, I get what you're saying, now. I think you're right and I was wrong." Or, "I'm sorry. I misunderstood what you meant; I take back what I said about it." Or, "Hey, I never knew that! Now I need to reconsider what I was saying earlier." It still has its cranks and a few people who can derail any conversation and people with their annoying political hobby-horses, and there were some distinct histrionics over the Microsoft vs. Sony console wars, but...by and large, it's a friendly place. And people will step up sometimes and say, "Hey, you shouldn't say that. That's over the line." And other people will often listen when they do.
I read the comments on blogs like Making Light, where there's good moderation and a sense of community, and when someone new flails in and starts making a mess, the locals are willing to say, "Look. Your behavior is out of line and unacceptable here. But here's how you can correct it; you can stay and argue your point if you're willing to do it by community standards." And I've seen people apologize to each other there, too.
That's probably my best signal for a healthy community, online or anywhere else. People being willing to apologize. People being willing to change their minds, given evidence that says they should. People willing to say, "I misunderstood. I misjudged you. I misspoke."
I'd like to be one of those people. God knows I can get frothy at times myself. Or try to make some clever jab, and realize after the fact that I have just invoked the failure state of clever. (Which is, as Scalzi says, asshole.) And I want to be the sort of person who is willing to apologize, and step back, and rephrase, and clarify, or just plain say, "Hey, I was wrong. That was over the line. I'm sorry. I won't do it again."
If I take a stand and won't back down on everything, then it's meaningless. The more I'm willing to back down when I was wrong, the more it means something when I actually hold my ground.
Anyway. Arguing on the internet! Sometimes it's a good thing! (But seriously, don't read the comments on most news articles posted online. Or on most any blog that doesn't practice some form of moderation.)